Warrior Cats of the Forest
of the Forest
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News
Plot Planning
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Hello everyone! This morning a handful of members raised some concerns about the proposed EarthClan plot. To get the details, please check on the most recent plot planning page, but the gist of their worries is that it isn’t realistic for where the clans are now and feels forced. The plot hasn’t had much momentum so far, so I would like to hear from the rest of y’all whether you guys think we should continue with it as planned, alter the plan, or scrap the idea all together. If we do alter it, what do you think we should do instead of what is currently planned?
There is a gathering scheduled for this coming weekend, but if we need to move it back a week that isn’t a big deal, especially since the gathering would cover both Good Friday and Easter so a bunch of our members might not be able to make it anyway.
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63 Comments
My character(s) would be breaking away from the merge.
All of mine will, well all but Smallkit. She doesn't know any better. She is only a kit.
I only have Envypaw in Nightclan and she's more of a go with the flow type so she wouldn't mind.
Honey, Silverwind, and Featherheart, what do you think about the rest of the planned plot?
I'm always up for some drama but I honestly don't really know why they're exactly merging. I wasn't here for the whole Lighteningstar thing or whatever happened so.. ^^" It sounds messy and Earthclan probably wouldn't last at all but I like it the sound of it.
I think this entire debacle demonstrates a fundamental problem with this site, and I think it's something Ember's already touched on, to a degree, earlier in the discussion.
That problem is the lack of involvement so many people have in developing the plot. The idea for the merge isn't 'new'; there has been plenty of time for it to be debated and shut down before now. Several weeks - if I remember correctly - have been devoted to slowly manoeuvring the clans into a position where the merge can occur, between Creekstar's discussion of the idea with some of her warriors and the various hardships which have struck NightClan. If every big idea is thrown out due to questions about the degree of 'realism', then this roleplay will get no where, engage no one, and over time, lose members. When the idea of EarthClan was first discussed, it had support from the majority of the people who took time to discuss it, was debated rather thoroughly, and presented a very unique opportunity - something which could possibly reinvigorate the site. Personally, I'd prefer a plot which has one or two problems with 'realism' than a site which has problems with a lack of plot.
To summarize, this could have been dealt with earlier so that time was not wasted moving towards a plot which may no longer be used.
As for what to do moving forward, I see two options. One is that another idea is presented which is:
-Interesting
-More widely supported
-Likely to fix a problem with the site itself (such as inactivity or organizational woes, which the EarthClan plot was tailored towards)
Failing that, we move forward with the EarthClan idea. While I, too, questioned several things about this plot when it was first presented, I have to admit that it has won me over. Here's why:
1. The name, while perhaps seeming a bit silly at first, is beautifully in line with Moon and Sun, as Ember pointed out in the original discussion.
2. The plot takes advantage of previous plots/sentiments to create a reasonable movement. NightClan has suffered various issues in the city recently, ranging from an increased gang presence (the Ravencaw debacle included) to an increased human presence - a presence which, 'realistically', should continue to pose a problem if the clan does not relocate its camp, seeing as that camp has been identified as a 'nest' for cats. DawnClan, on the other hand, is building off of prey shortages, a recent reliance on NightClan, and the need for more strength/protection after Lightningstar's demise. Perhaps the correlations I've made are not perfect on this point, but they are reasonable enough for the justification of this plot.
3. This is a plot which should be justified because of how it will help the site. By creating more high-ranking positions, opening new opportunities for intra-clan conflicts, and possibly opening a huge playingfield in terms of the politics of EarthClan, this plot would reinvigorate activity on the site.
For those reasons, and surely many more, I would support EarthClan, and I would have all of my characters remain in said clan after the merge occurs. If we shut down everything exciting before it has even been given a chance, we're not going to be left with much of anything at all.
That problem is the lack of involvement so many people have in developing the plot. The idea for the merge isn't 'new'; there has been plenty of time for it to be debated and shut down before now. Several weeks - if I remember correctly - have been devoted to slowly manoeuvring the clans into a position where the merge can occur, between Creekstar's discussion of the idea with some of her warriors and the various hardships which have struck NightClan. If every big idea is thrown out due to questions about the degree of 'realism', then this roleplay will get no where, engage no one, and over time, lose members. When the idea of EarthClan was first discussed, it had support from the majority of the people who took time to discuss it, was debated rather thoroughly, and presented a very unique opportunity - something which could possibly reinvigorate the site. Personally, I'd prefer a plot which has one or two problems with 'realism' than a site which has problems with a lack of plot.
To summarize, this could have been dealt with earlier so that time was not wasted moving towards a plot which may no longer be used.
As for what to do moving forward, I see two options. One is that another idea is presented which is:
-Interesting
-More widely supported
-Likely to fix a problem with the site itself (such as inactivity or organizational woes, which the EarthClan plot was tailored towards)
Failing that, we move forward with the EarthClan idea. While I, too, questioned several things about this plot when it was first presented, I have to admit that it has won me over. Here's why:
1. The name, while perhaps seeming a bit silly at first, is beautifully in line with Moon and Sun, as Ember pointed out in the original discussion.
2. The plot takes advantage of previous plots/sentiments to create a reasonable movement. NightClan has suffered various issues in the city recently, ranging from an increased gang presence (the Ravencaw debacle included) to an increased human presence - a presence which, 'realistically', should continue to pose a problem if the clan does not relocate its camp, seeing as that camp has been identified as a 'nest' for cats. DawnClan, on the other hand, is building off of prey shortages, a recent reliance on NightClan, and the need for more strength/protection after Lightningstar's demise. Perhaps the correlations I've made are not perfect on this point, but they are reasonable enough for the justification of this plot.
3. This is a plot which should be justified because of how it will help the site. By creating more high-ranking positions, opening new opportunities for intra-clan conflicts, and possibly opening a huge playingfield in terms of the politics of EarthClan, this plot would reinvigorate activity on the site.
For those reasons, and surely many more, I would support EarthClan, and I would have all of my characters remain in said clan after the merge occurs. If we shut down everything exciting before it has even been given a chance, we're not going to be left with much of anything at all.
(Applauds Alienfish I think I shead a single tear) Ember I say the Earthclan plot is a good idea and if we scrap it a lot of members will leave because there will really be no excitement on the website meaning inactivity and loss of members so I say we go with Earthclan
What I like about the EarthClan plot is that it will take the weight of carrying the plot off of the shoulders of leaders. I can't help but feel that the transition to EarthClan has been stalled by conflicting activity levels of leaders. With an entire Council and a newly formed clan trying to fit together, the plot will be spread out across other characters who are not limited by when their leaders choose to act.
Although I wish to bring counter-arguments it is late and writing a whole essays worth on why Earthclan is a shambled plot idea will have to wait for tomorrow. That of which I will draw holes into most points brought forward by members whom participated in the plot planning.
If every plot that was ever run on this site was to be completely void of holes or absolutely realistic, we would never have any plots at all. Having a few issues is no reason to scrap a whole idea that could potentially be a lot of fun for those engaging in it. That is the ultimate point of a roleplaying site after all, to enjoy oneself. At the moment there is no site wide plot to partake in that is even remotely interesting. If you have a better idea for a site wide plot, one that hasn't been done to death in the form of loose, shifting alliances that rely solely on the leader or deputy to fulfill, you should suggest it.
Of course every plot has holes but Earthclan plot is just inexcusable. The times where plots are not underway are relatively normal as any other day on the site. What positions will make this more involving? The council? What of concurrent Deputy and Leader positions? Making more "high-ranking positions" is not going to provide any substance to the plot or story if you water down the overall impact of a high ranked position by adding a council of several characters. Just because a plot is the only existing one doesn't mean it can't be dished out as something else, of course their will only be one ongoing plot idea if everybody stacks onto one idea and keep going. Newer members have not faced these "done to death" scenarios as you say as much as you and I on this site and we should be factoring that in. However, I am not saying we should copy and paste, far from it. Just remember that a site is still active without a plot yelling in our ears to "push this agenda forward", or "have your character's proclaim this because it's what is required".
The site has rather recently run into issues with activity, and, as members have expressed in various chats, on the plot planning pages, etc. they're getting bored with the day to day roleplaying that goes no where and amounts to nothing. Of course some people prefer to have those types of role-plays, but we also have members who prefer an overarching plot and the two can coexist without one stepping on the other. Even with the formation of EarthClan members will still be able to role-play normally, the day to day activities will remain consistent as they always do (heck, there's typically a couple of cats carrying on a conversation about the weather when one of their clan mates is dying of blood loss in the middle of the camp) and the members who feel rather casual about the plot don't have to participate. However, members who want their characters to be involved in an in depth and layered overarching plot will have the opportunity to do so, something they currently don't have.
Adding extra high ranking characters is a viable move for the site at this time, given how many members and characters are as well as the fact that leaders and deputies go inactive rather suddenly and can't be everywhere at once. So many role-plays are stalled because one character is waiting for the leader or deputy to do something only the leader or deputy can do. With more roles of authority that pressure will be dispersed out across several members, who can then use their character's new power as they wish- whether that be to attempt to manipulate the overarching plot, simply welcome new cats into the clan, or deal with squabbling clan mates.
No one will be forced into any role with the creation of EarthClan. While leaders and deputies are sometimes bent by the whims of the plot regular characters are not, and not every individual character has to go along with the designated outline. However, from what Ripple and Avery have both said, it is within character for their leaders to suggest/ push the merge, and they are the only ones with the ability to decide that for their characters. Regular warriors of the clan are still perfectly capable of dissenting and speaking out against it, but from what has been said on the blog so far it appears that the majority would go along with the merge. The characters who wish to have no part of EarthClan do not have to join it. I don't exactly see the coercion that you're concerned about.
Adding extra high ranking characters is a viable move for the site at this time, given how many members and characters are as well as the fact that leaders and deputies go inactive rather suddenly and can't be everywhere at once. So many role-plays are stalled because one character is waiting for the leader or deputy to do something only the leader or deputy can do. With more roles of authority that pressure will be dispersed out across several members, who can then use their character's new power as they wish- whether that be to attempt to manipulate the overarching plot, simply welcome new cats into the clan, or deal with squabbling clan mates.
No one will be forced into any role with the creation of EarthClan. While leaders and deputies are sometimes bent by the whims of the plot regular characters are not, and not every individual character has to go along with the designated outline. However, from what Ripple and Avery have both said, it is within character for their leaders to suggest/ push the merge, and they are the only ones with the ability to decide that for their characters. Regular warriors of the clan are still perfectly capable of dissenting and speaking out against it, but from what has been said on the blog so far it appears that the majority would go along with the merge. The characters who wish to have no part of EarthClan do not have to join it. I don't exactly see the coercion that you're concerned about.
If we want people to participate more in the Plot Planning then that is probably not gonna happen because it takes a certain knack to comment on the page. Earthclans deception although may not be new but the past cases where it would have been better should not be dismissed. Right now there is no reason for a drastic merge to occur. It?s not a matter of ?realism?, but the political situation and escalation which is not there. It had support in the beginning mostly due to no one else having an idea as comparable to the merge so members went along with it to see where it went. The idea of having a plot too realistic leaving a plot plain is very out there. If people aren?t interested in the plot than they aren?t interested period, whether that be an unrealistic one or realistic is can still be rejected.
The name Earthclan although nice when squared up with Moon and Sun there is one major gripe with it, how would the Warriors know what Earth is? They can see the Sun, Moon, and stars but where would they get Earth? For all the Warriors know they live on a square that is the only thing that exists. If they speak of Earth as in the soil then it isn?t beautifully inline as you say Alienfish.
Those increased gang problems? Nightclan has always faced gang problems since its conception so why should they move away from their camp to another because of it if they outnumber them and outskill them? Moving camp also wouldn?t get rid of any gang problem because the territory would still be kept in order to feed two entire clans, so hunting in the city would still be necessary and gang intrusion would be the same, in fact it would increase if anything. The two-legs is not very solid anymore as it was one instance and it hasn?t happened in a long time, perhaps if it was repeated then maybe, but right now it doesn?t seem fair to assume that Nightclan is eager to up and go as of yet.
The prey shortages Dawnclan faced is most likely over by now, added on with the extra prey coming in from Nightclan and with Green-leaf here that feels stretched. Any security problems they had was on the utter shock and surprise of the attack on Lightningstar, I don?t see what security problems needed to be fixed in that, just a Medicine Cat who went off emotion and got lucky. These justifications are not enough for a merge, maybe with a diplomatic pairing between two cats but the clans do not follow a monarchical system so that doesn?t work.
When I say justification I mean it in a sense of the RP, not what members think should happen as I touched on earlier. What is the political situation? How are characters feeling right now? What?s happening ideologically? Any plot can help the site but we shouldn?t say ?Have a plot just for the sake of having one?.
Although I agree inactivity of high ranking characters is a problem obviously but members will always find times of inactivity. This Council, which let?s say has six cats from both clans two possibly being the Deputies and Leaders themselves, to split the load of clan matters. Which I?d like to add if the inactivity is a problem then how does anyone expect us to go back to just having four, completely normal clans without any fill in ranks like ?Council Member? or ?Head Warrior?? Back to the council idea, with four other cats which will clearly be rped by different members how does that make dealing with situations better if the other council members aren?t around? A council implies voting/ Republic system so anyone who would make a decision by themselves or even with only two other council members it will still be tedious and the cat if acting alone will be overstepping boundaries, if they are even allowed such power. If we have more high ranking elites with the same powers how does that simplify matters if they do it on a council system? This will not solve the pause in roleplays, for there always will be pauses, it?s just up to the members who rp the Leaders and Deputies to go back in the Camp pages and lead off from where the conversation ended when they are active once again.
The name Earthclan although nice when squared up with Moon and Sun there is one major gripe with it, how would the Warriors know what Earth is? They can see the Sun, Moon, and stars but where would they get Earth? For all the Warriors know they live on a square that is the only thing that exists. If they speak of Earth as in the soil then it isn?t beautifully inline as you say Alienfish.
Those increased gang problems? Nightclan has always faced gang problems since its conception so why should they move away from their camp to another because of it if they outnumber them and outskill them? Moving camp also wouldn?t get rid of any gang problem because the territory would still be kept in order to feed two entire clans, so hunting in the city would still be necessary and gang intrusion would be the same, in fact it would increase if anything. The two-legs is not very solid anymore as it was one instance and it hasn?t happened in a long time, perhaps if it was repeated then maybe, but right now it doesn?t seem fair to assume that Nightclan is eager to up and go as of yet.
The prey shortages Dawnclan faced is most likely over by now, added on with the extra prey coming in from Nightclan and with Green-leaf here that feels stretched. Any security problems they had was on the utter shock and surprise of the attack on Lightningstar, I don?t see what security problems needed to be fixed in that, just a Medicine Cat who went off emotion and got lucky. These justifications are not enough for a merge, maybe with a diplomatic pairing between two cats but the clans do not follow a monarchical system so that doesn?t work.
When I say justification I mean it in a sense of the RP, not what members think should happen as I touched on earlier. What is the political situation? How are characters feeling right now? What?s happening ideologically? Any plot can help the site but we shouldn?t say ?Have a plot just for the sake of having one?.
Although I agree inactivity of high ranking characters is a problem obviously but members will always find times of inactivity. This Council, which let?s say has six cats from both clans two possibly being the Deputies and Leaders themselves, to split the load of clan matters. Which I?d like to add if the inactivity is a problem then how does anyone expect us to go back to just having four, completely normal clans without any fill in ranks like ?Council Member? or ?Head Warrior?? Back to the council idea, with four other cats which will clearly be rped by different members how does that make dealing with situations better if the other council members aren?t around? A council implies voting/ Republic system so anyone who would make a decision by themselves or even with only two other council members it will still be tedious and the cat if acting alone will be overstepping boundaries, if they are even allowed such power. If we have more high ranking elites with the same powers how does that simplify matters if they do it on a council system? This will not solve the pause in roleplays, for there always will be pauses, it?s just up to the members who rp the Leaders and Deputies to go back in the Camp pages and lead off from where the conversation ended when they are active once again.
So it would seem like your main issue lies in the interest of members. I don't see the political situation as a valid point, as the decision is made sheerly by Boundstar and Creekstar, so they are the only characters needing any type of motivation. It doesn't matter how the rest of the clan feels, if the leaders want a merge a merge will happen. That's the only political atmosphere necessary and given that Creekstar has in her description she has a tendency to be paranoid, it makes perfect sense.
The only way to really see if most members are interested in the merge is to take a poll, as it's rather obvious most are not commenting on the plot planning page.
The only way to really see if most members are interested in the merge is to take a poll, as it's rather obvious most are not commenting on the plot planning page.
Also, as for your earth point, EarthClan is not reference to the giant floating sphere circling the sun, simply the earth that we stand on, the ground beneath our feet.
Then Earthclan as a name for a clan is, comparative to the others, void of sense for why'd they name it that.
The political aspect is very valid point because everyday life is inevitably politics, what happened in history was politics back then.But just because two Leaders agree does not mean it'd be supported by Warriors, in fact it shouldn't because there is no reason for the merge besides a paranoid Leader and a reluctant Nightclan to proclaim. I do not agree when you say it makes perfect sense for when it clearly doesn't.
The political aspect is very valid point because everyday life is inevitably politics, what happened in history was politics back then.But just because two Leaders agree does not mean it'd be supported by Warriors, in fact it shouldn't because there is no reason for the merge besides a paranoid Leader and a reluctant Nightclan to proclaim. I do not agree when you say it makes perfect sense for when it clearly doesn't.
The Clans aren't democracies, they're essentially dictatorships and the vast majority of the time what the leader says goes regardless of what the rest of the clan thinks. It's even part of the Warrior code.
EarthClan is certainly a valid name. The sun and moon above us and the earth below us. The earth that holds the trees, plants, rivers, etc. It's just as important to them as the sun and moon, and it makes just as much sense as naming a clan DawnClan, NightClan, MoonClan, or SunClan.
EarthClan is certainly a valid name. The sun and moon above us and the earth below us. The earth that holds the trees, plants, rivers, etc. It's just as important to them as the sun and moon, and it makes just as much sense as naming a clan DawnClan, NightClan, MoonClan, or SunClan.
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