Warrior Cats of the Forest
of the Forest
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News
Plot Planning
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Hello everyone! This morning a handful of members raised some concerns about the proposed EarthClan plot. To get the details, please check on the most recent plot planning page, but the gist of their worries is that it isn’t realistic for where the clans are now and feels forced. The plot hasn’t had much momentum so far, so I would like to hear from the rest of y’all whether you guys think we should continue with it as planned, alter the plan, or scrap the idea all together. If we do alter it, what do you think we should do instead of what is currently planned?
There is a gathering scheduled for this coming weekend, but if we need to move it back a week that isn’t a big deal, especially since the gathering would cover both Good Friday and Easter so a bunch of our members might not be able to make it anyway.
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63 Comments
Ember having the gathering then would be fine for me but that is just my thought
Okay um Ember, I have a plan, For after EarthClan... What if Nightclan had a bad falling out when they split? Like a really bad one, THat can be decided by the higher ups. When Earthclan splits Nightclan and Dawnclan become enemies. and then Moonclan and Sunclan also have a falling out, Maybe Jaguarstar or ravenstar having an issue or if during a fight A sunclan warrior attacks like the deputy, leader or medicine cat? It can be unintentional, but something enough to Anger Moonclan. With this, happening, Nightclan teams up with Moonclan, angry at Sunclan and Dawnclan? I mean Many Nightclan cats hate Dawnclanners anyway.
I'm suggestiong this since Nightclan and Moonclan havent teamed up in forever. If need to Be I will sacrifice Runecleff to make some plot progress.
I'm suggestiong this since Nightclan and Moonclan havent teamed up in forever. If need to Be I will sacrifice Runecleff to make some plot progress.
I say scrap the idea of Earthclan altogether, just keep it an alliance. The war is justifiable enough but a merger is ill in terms of plausibility. Perhaps the two leaders could suggest it anyway but it backfires quickly by Nationalist and Traditionalist ideals.
The Nationalists and Traditionalists are hardly an issue in DawnClan anymore. However I agree that the current situation makes it unlikely. NC and DC are still both in strong positions with no current reason to merge. If it was going to happen it should have been instantly after Lightningstar's death.
I'm sorry, that's my fault. Creeksplash still hasn't gotten her lives. I'll do it now. Afterwards, Creeksplash is going to NightClan to suggest the merge. Lightningstar's death isn't that far away, and Boundstar lost a life recently also. She's also worried about the recent prey shortage. I don't see much of an issue. You know how nobody really wanted Trump as a president, and everyone said they would move to Canada if he did? It's like that. I can't see that many NightClanners and DawnClanners leaving just because of the merge. Sure, they say they will, but how many actually will? Three?
I agree with Averyiator and most cats will stay only a few if any will leave
If we don't go ahead with the merge, should we still keep a close alliance between DawnClan and NightClan? We could continue having them grow closer and then re-assess the merge in a month or two if they actually became closer, or throw out the idea of they didn't.
That offers a fairly convenient out, as well, if Boundstar refuses the complete merge but instead offers to open borders with DawnClan or take other measures that would bring their clans closer together (possibly in a way that would put DawnClan somewhat under NightClan's control?)
That offers a fairly convenient out, as well, if Boundstar refuses the complete merge but instead offers to open borders with DawnClan or take other measures that would bring their clans closer together (possibly in a way that would put DawnClan somewhat under NightClan's control?)
I really don't like the idea of Earth clan it just seems so unrealistic for Dawnclan to show up and be like let's merge! Especially in the past where Bluestar and Jetstar were mates and even that didn't cause a merge. I like Shiryuu's idea for once that it's Moonclan and Nightclan vs Dawnclan and Sunclan.
I don't see a MoonClan/NightClan and DawnClan/SunClan alliance happening soon. Considering how invested DawnClan and NightClan are in each other, even if DawnClan does end up insulting NightClan by suggesting the merge, they probably won't want to lose that. The SunClan/MoonClan alliance has barely been mentioned (has Jaguarstar even formally agreed to it?), so we could change that around too.
I don't think our current situation is totally comparable to our current situation, at that point DawnClan and NightClan were at their peaks and equal in strength. That said, we shouldn't press ahead with the EarthClan plot if most members aren't interested in it.
I don't think our current situation is totally comparable to our current situation, at that point DawnClan and NightClan were at their peaks and equal in strength. That said, we shouldn't press ahead with the EarthClan plot if most members aren't interested in it.
As long as Avery and Ripple both think it's a realistic move for their leaders I'd like to move ahead with the plot. We need something a little different to shake things up, and establishing EarthClan offers many new opportunities and high ranking positions. I don't think there's a reason to ditch the plot completely.
Averyiator says...
I'm sorry, that's my fault. Creeksplash still hasn't gotten her lives. I'll do it now. Afterwards, Creeksplash is going to NightClan to suggest the merge. Lightningstar's death isn't that far away, and Boundstar lost a life recently also. She's also worried about the recent prey shortage. I don't see much of an issue. You know how nobody really wanted Trump as a president, and everyone said they would move to Canada if he did? It's like that. I can't see that many NightClanners and DawnClanners leaving just because of the merge. Sure, they say they will, but how many actually will? Three?
You do realize that if nobody wanted him as President than he wouldn't have won right? But he did so I don't see what connection you're trying to make. To everyone else Earthclan cannot be made simply because two leaders said so if the two demographics have little reason to do so. Keeping it as a close alliance is interesting enough to warrant such a possibility in and of itself. Perhaps advisory positions could be established as an alternative.
Jaguarstar had agreed to meet with Ravenstar, but that meeting never took place. I think a patrol was going to be sent to tell him when, and where to meet up to discuss the alliance? (I am going solely on memory...so don't hold me to this... @[email protected]) He would still meet up with MoonClan, but he won't dive headfirst into something unless MoonClan seemed willing to meet him halfway.
I was kid of hoping for a change of pace, since its always nightclan and awnln vs moonclan and sunclan
Well, if we're still going to go ahead with the MoonClan/SunClan alliance, then we should really start pushing the two clans together. I had two of my characters die from the sickness, but that hasn't really taken off yet. I can have some of my others get sick as well, and we could possibly have more trouble at the NightClan border to keep the SunClanners on their toes?
Shiryuu, I agree that it would be an interesting change of pace, but I don't think it's something we can jump in to right now. Maybe when we decide to change alliances next, or maybe we can start causing rifts in the current NightClan/DawnClan alliance instead of pushing them together?
Lightning, if the leaders agree, maybe we could go through with the merge, but have a large enough population from both clans refuse to go through with it. The alliance would be destabilized if the leaders couldn't enforce a total merge (especially if most of the cats refusing were from one clan rather than the other). Perhaps the cats against the merge could even start allying with MoonClan and SunClan?
Shiryuu, I agree that it would be an interesting change of pace, but I don't think it's something we can jump in to right now. Maybe when we decide to change alliances next, or maybe we can start causing rifts in the current NightClan/DawnClan alliance instead of pushing them together?
Lightning, if the leaders agree, maybe we could go through with the merge, but have a large enough population from both clans refuse to go through with it. The alliance would be destabilized if the leaders couldn't enforce a total merge (especially if most of the cats refusing were from one clan rather than the other). Perhaps the cats against the merge could even start allying with MoonClan and SunClan?
I think it would be more interesting to have conflicts of power within the newly established clan itself rather than with cats trying to move outside of it. NightClan has plenty of reason to merge if they think they'll get an upper hand over DawnClan and therefore have control of an even larger force. Nightclanners could see potential in the establishment of a Council and work to destabilize the leaders and gain sole power for themselves rather than trying to crush the alliance. Of course DawnClan would have to have reason to submit to NightClan's authority, it's hard to believe any alliance between them would result in a different power dynamic, but if Creekstar is simply paranoid enough to do it I think it would work. There aren't enough vocal DawnClanners to oppose the shift, just given how little backlash Lightningstar had from sending queens to NightClan.
Backlash comes in escalation, to say that for no outspoken cats to oppose the queens being sent is reason enough to believe cats wouldn't oppose the merge is far fetched. Most Dawnclan cats were not affected by the act because it was only a handful and was with characters who had little gravitas in the Clan. Moving camp affects every member in Dawnclan which will be swatted away by those who have lived in Dawnclan camp their whole life, to affect all of the clan would be justification for backlash against the merge. Dawnclanners would very much have a reason to deny Creekstars agenda and create their own branch which would stay in Dawnclan.
The only way to see if there is a large backlash is for the merger to be suggested and for Creekstar to push it. There's no reason to get rid of the plot entirely because a few cats might protest. Boundstar is also an inherently likable NightClan leader, which is rather uncommon in NightClan, and seems to be more widely trusted as an honorable figure than some of the past NightClan leaders.
I don't think anyone's advocating for the merge to work perfectly, it would hardly be an interesting plot point if it did. Of course there should be dissent, disagreement, and a period of settling in where the two clans are in conflict with each other. Once we get past the initial merge, we can get a feel for the atmosphere of the plot and decide where to go from there- whether to have a nasty falling out that ends terribly for both, or to continue on with EarthClan for longer.
I don't have a strong opinion about the merge, so however we proceed is up to ambition.
I will say that someone had it correct before. Right after the last gathering was the best time to campaign for the merge, but we didn't make much of Sharkfang's plot as I expected, so that fell flat.
Any integration between NC and DC won't have an equal split in power. We all know the alliance is doomed to fail, and I'm not sure if going through the process of a merge (with a single camp especially) is worth the trouble of eventually seeing it crumble.
Anyway, if DawnClan does end up breaking into factions opposing the merge, then that'll only make it easier for NightClan to gain control. Easy conflict there, plus there looks to be trouble brewing at the SunClan border also.
I will say that someone had it correct before. Right after the last gathering was the best time to campaign for the merge, but we didn't make much of Sharkfang's plot as I expected, so that fell flat.
Any integration between NC and DC won't have an equal split in power. We all know the alliance is doomed to fail, and I'm not sure if going through the process of a merge (with a single camp especially) is worth the trouble of eventually seeing it crumble.
Anyway, if DawnClan does end up breaking into factions opposing the merge, then that'll only make it easier for NightClan to gain control. Easy conflict there, plus there looks to be trouble brewing at the SunClan border also.
Just to get a feel for how many characters actually will oppose the merge, which of you guy's characters would refuse to join? I only have two DawnClanners, of which only Antvenom would be on the fence about it. Silverpool participated in the queen-sharing and my two NightClanners are her kits, so they'd be wholeheartedly for the merge.
From a purely organizational perspective I'd prefer if we didn't have an offshoot DawnClan, but if enough characters support that for the group to become something of a short-lived pseudo clan, it won't be impossible to coordinate.
NightClan would be getting most of the benefit from the merge, so they don't have much reason to move outside of the rather loose idea of identity. They are fundamentally city cats, but it isn't as if they're giving up their territory in the merge. They're just moving to a safer camp. Ideally this would have happened closer to when their camp was raided, but it's tough to push plot points forward so I doubt there's the time to have them raided again without making the merge even more nonsensical for DawnClan. DawnCLan would see even less of a change, their camp would move, but it would still be in a forested area next to a river. They'd now have NightClan's protection, as well.
Maybe to give DawnClan one little extra shove, we could have MoonClan and SunClan mount an attack against them?
From a purely organizational perspective I'd prefer if we didn't have an offshoot DawnClan, but if enough characters support that for the group to become something of a short-lived pseudo clan, it won't be impossible to coordinate.
NightClan would be getting most of the benefit from the merge, so they don't have much reason to move outside of the rather loose idea of identity. They are fundamentally city cats, but it isn't as if they're giving up their territory in the merge. They're just moving to a safer camp. Ideally this would have happened closer to when their camp was raided, but it's tough to push plot points forward so I doubt there's the time to have them raided again without making the merge even more nonsensical for DawnClan. DawnCLan would see even less of a change, their camp would move, but it would still be in a forested area next to a river. They'd now have NightClan's protection, as well.
Maybe to give DawnClan one little extra shove, we could have MoonClan and SunClan mount an attack against them?
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